It takes a bit of patience to figure out how the merging works, but I do enjoy that aspect a lot. It's a fun puzzle to look at the details and figure out how things connect, educational that way too.
I think this concept of game and what it's trying to educate on can really be expanded on.
hmmmmm, decent game. the concepts in of themselves are pretty decent, but u know , attempting this irl, u hit roadblocks cuase, someone has to head the changes and often thats where u get stuck. but does make one think.. good design too btw.
OK but trains do not kill the environment more than cars do - quite the opposite, in fact. "It's all connected maaaan" only gets you so far, you do need to consider HOW things are connected. Vicious cycles are not the only cycles.
I think that it's because just having the trains won't/wouldn't fix the issue of unhealthily extracting from the Earth, like putting a bandage on a cut. :3c
One freight train uses less fuel than 70 cargo trucks to carry the same load, even assuming a diesel train and not electric. It literally does improve the issue of unhealthily extracting from the earth.
Cute. I got 4 big diamonds on each corner of the screen so I guess that means I won the game? After a bit I was just pecking at random places to see if something would happen. It isn't always clear when something is good or bad.
Some of the links are: 1- Communism 2- ??? 3- Joy! but I see what you want to say even if the delivery is a bit ham-handed at points. I guess the alternative would be long texts that people wouldn't read. So I guess you're doing as well as could be done in this medium.
This is borderline more of a learning tool than a proper game. The game mechanic is essentially clicking around for a reaction. Some more dynamic mechanics could make this more varied and engaging. Maybe split it into shorter games for each aspect? Like a game for each diamond?
I enjoyed playing this game, but I have seen the possibility of creating a resource-based economy, rather than just a post-capitalist society. Such an economy would use the scientific method to solve problems, without the constraints of left and right politics, money, poverty, and war. It would require completely different societal dynamics, and I think The Venus Project has some interesting ideas on this topic.
This is the scariest thing I've seen for a long time. Is cultural erasure with an utopic distribution and some form of non descript barter. Is utopic at best, distopic at worse.Is well intentioned, I won't deny, but without extreme societal changes, not feasible.
On the utopic side, communism. But I know that's not attainable now. So, social organization, like smaller things. Sindicalization, public gardens, study groups, and even i'm disenchanted, party politics. Joining a party, collectivizing, putting pressure on governments. I'm not sure in your country, but try and find a group, because alone we can't do nothing.
I'm Slavic and my mother's side of Family lived in USSR, She had to throw away her chance at a proper life in order to be able to help pay for her sibling's education by getting a job after finishing high school, and had to stand hours in line just to get some food. Socialism/communism is an unrealistic ideal and my mother has told me many stories about how she and her side of the family suffered because of that system. Although some aspects of socialism I.E. free healthcare work with a capitalist society, but a completely socialist/communist system is impossible because of one and very simple human emotion called greed. The only way such a system would work is if we were emotionless, or if robots took over almost every job eliminating the need for the general population to work.
Children can never be raised in a family because of one and very simple human emotion called greed. Children could only exist if we were emotionless, so I guess our species will quietly die out now.
Seriously though, there is a lot to humans, don't underestimate us. And insisting that our entire system be based on one single and pretty negative aspect of our characters, even if you think that aspect is immutable, is kinda sociopathic.
Capitalism are also flawed in reality, both work great on paper, but the problems arise when people use the system for their own personal gain. The USSR was flawed in many ways but I still belive in a communistic society. This is because the current capitalistic society allows people to disregard people like my parents that were workers and being underpaid and exploited by the system. Capitalism does not work either
When you say capitalism, do you mean free market? Or private ownership of property? Those aren't the same thing. Socialism is the public control, ownership can be public or private. The US isn't a free market by a long shot, not even close. There are more national regulatory public control agencies than anyone can actually tabulate and each has mountains of regulations. Banks and Medicine, institutions people push as lacking in efficiency and have dedicated office space for regulators. In fact, medicine has increased cost as there are multiples more admin than actual providers (I work in the healthcare staffing space). Try opening a clinic or anything related to medicine and tell me there aren't massive regulations.
The western half is almost entirely owned by government, several of the western states are ~75% public (another word for socialized or common or communal) property. Public roads, public utilities, public lands, public parks. Social property. Social owned and controlled is communism. Social controlled but private ownership is fascism (both groups are socialist, they just kill each other because they disagree on the degree to impose their ideology.)
Capitalism doesn't work if done with socialism. That's why they have to grab more power and ownership and nationalize - just like banks we are watching in real time. Free markets work though. China was communist and the millions that died from famines and such would make people sob for the rest of their lives if they actually cared. When they opened up markets to be MORE free, they have more millionaires than the US has people. Their middle class is ballooning. Which makes the elites worried - anyone remember Hong Kong? You know the one they were only able to shut down by telling everyone there was a disease? Nordic countries pulled away from social programs in the same time frame. It is like someone escaping a torture chamber and another walking in pointing to them as it is good because they were there.
If your parents are underpaid, get another job. Better yet, start a company. You can't because the regulations are overburdening. They are exploited by the system but not a free market system. It is and has been forever mostly a socialized system. All the problems socialists whine about are due to regulation and control of the social, not from trade. Trade generates wealth without even needing to utilize any resources. It is better for the environment and society AND handles greed. You have to satisfy my greed to satisfy yours and I have to satisfy yours to satisfy mine. Professors that are socialists aren't going to tell you that, as they sit in their lazy comfy jobs paid by the state. It is the deadliest religion we have ever seen.
US isn’t a free market (which is what most people mean when they say capitalism - which isn’t really synonymous) but socialist with either fascism (private ownership/state controlled) moving into more communism (state owned/controlled).
Excavating the links between different outgrowths of capitalism was very interesting and very well done. This was a great way to interact with the foundations of capitalism.
Say, I think this game could really really use some kind of detailed explanation sheet about the links between each issue. I find them tenuous at best, and it might be difficult to understand for people who aren't familiar with communist theory.
A full utopia is possible! You just have to do the "right-click and drag" interaction on the little blocks coming off the side of the level. For example, you can connect the two nodes in the bottom left of the screen (time is managed in the name of efficiency + unpaid labour is fundamental for capitalism). I absolutely could have explained that mechanic better, haha.
Reminds me a bit of my game CityBuilder. Love the look and feel of your game!
But i think the tutorial could be a bit more clear it feels a bit confusing somehow, maybe cut it in a few separate pieces or direct the player a bit more?
I'm actually in need of feedback on my game so if you have time that would be great! And if you want me to share idea's and feedback about your game i would love to share anything i can come up with that might improves yours if your interested.
Wonderful, a deep insight into benefitting all. Also a very clever and educational game. I found this piece as a highs school senior and now as I am due to graduate my first university degree, I still find myself returning here to relive this experience, to remind me of why I do what it is I do. Thank you.
its a nice simulation, unfortunately a perfected algorithm of a linear system that has absolutely zero realism is dangerous. Communism/socialism/Marxism and now the rebranded version, "democratic socialism" resulted in the deaths of arguably at least a billion years since Carl Marx and contemporaries wrote there utopian vision. Don't be fooled, this is a horrible destruction, Jealous and evil system that is far far worse than anything capitalism has and will do to an individual. Maybe one day we'll have a better system, but anyone thinking a system of Jealousy and forced theft will make the future better only needs to look at history for countless examples.
Communism is great. This is a game that says that capitalism will necesarily create a bad life for us all and that the only solution is to abandon capitalist principles and embrace communist ones.
socialism seems great, until you realize that very few have the incentive to work hard since being lazy will get them just about all the same stuff as someone who works hard their whole life in a socialist society. the result? economic collapse due to everyone being lazy. so all you will accomplish with full socialism is making everyone live roughly the same, in poverty. like wise, if you go full capitalist, the rich and successful will just fill their wallets and again the common person will suffer. the solution? strike a balance. have capitalism but with socialist policys like universal healthcare and government paid collage for example. you dont want to go to far in either direction.
clearly the solution to capitalism being awful is to just make it more sustainable so it can be awful for longer! also today I learned humans never do anything productive unless it makes their life better than someone else's.
the problem with socialism is lack of incentive. you go socialist, people get lazy as why work hard if you get pretty much the same stuff as someone who works hard even if your lazy? the answer is you wont work hard. you will just sit back and let others do the work even if you dont realize it. that, or your children that are born into socialism will and so will their children and so on. except, everyone will be relying on everyone else to work hard and no one will be working hard so the economy would fall due to everyone being lazy. pretty soon, there wouldnt be much left. theres a famous quote that goes "capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others". capitalism may suck, but its better than everyone being really poor. theres another quote that explains what i was talking about earlier that goes: "socialism is great, until you run out of everyone else's money"
likewise, the problem with capitalism is that the rich just fill their wallets without regard for the average person.
the solution? a balance. in a perfect world, socialism or even communism would be great. but atlas, humans need incentive. maybe once we reach the "AI singularity" thats predicted to come in 40 years we can have socialism. until then, your stuck with a capitalism/socialism mix im afraid.
also, its not about making their life better than others necessarily. there just needs to be a reward for doing so or why bother? why bother researching and nerding out when you could have some quick fun on itch io instead of waiting 10 years for your nerdy hobbys to pay off? or doing your hobbys 24/7 and never do itch io? same reason socialism wont work: lazyness and/or a need for incentive/reward in a relatively short time period to do work. or at least to do more than the minimum
btw, sorry i took so long to respond. haven't been on in a while.
Socialism and communism are different things. Socialism isn't just "everyone has the same life and everything is owned by the state." And idk about you but I'm going into the field of genetics because I want to learn and I want to make a difference, not because I want to make money. If I cared more about money, I would be staying at my job and working my way upward, but instead I'm focusing on schooling, which is expensive and putting me in debt. Tell me again how the ability to go to school full time without having to work at an amusement park for minimum wage simply to survive would make me not want to pursue an education and career in my field? Not everyone only cares about money. So if it weren't for capitalism, people like you could play on itch.io all day and people like me could actually achieve something without starving in the process. Just because your dreams revolve around money doesn't mean no one will ever do anything without money as a motivation.
you're right to an extent, they are not the same system. But they are rooted in the same philosophy. So called democratic socialism is dangerously close in its language to Marxist philosophy. When is it ok to take an individuals assets for the, "good of the people" or when is it ok to silence a persons beliefs due to it being considered, "dangerous or destructive" to a society. That is where Democratic socialism, and what would result from its implementation, are far to close to the systems of the past.
Halo. Saya menulis dalam bahasa Indonesia karena sulit bagi saya mengungkapkan pikiran yang kompleks dalam bahasa Inggris yang bukan bahasa ibu saya.
Ada kesalahan pikir baik ketika Anda mendeskripsikan kapitalisme dan sosialisme. Umumnya Marxis ketika membicarakan kapitalisme, mereka membicarakan tentang mode produksi kapitalis, yaitu tentang pembagian kelas antara borjuasi dan buruh, eksploitasi nilai lebih, dan lain-lain. Anda di sisi lain berbicara tentang konstruksi ideologis atas kapitalisme; Anda berbicara bagaimana kapitalisme dipandang secara ideologis, seperti kapitalisme menciptakan insentif, kapitalisme membuat orang tidak malas, dan lain-lain. Kesalahan pikir Anda tentang kapitalisme kemudian terbawa pula dalam Anda mendeskripsikan sosialisme. Anda membicarakan segala sesuatu yang berkebalikan dengan konstruksi ideologis Anda atas kapitalisme dan mulai menyebutnya sebagai "sosialisme."
Kesalahan pikir Anda selanjutnya adalah ketika Anda berpikir bahwa sosialisme adalah kebalikan dari "kapitalisme" -- kapitalisme dalam pandangan ideologis borjuis Anda. Ini menunjukkan ketidakpahaman akan teori materialisme historis Marx yang didasarkan pada dialektika. Dan dialektika erat kaitannya dengan kontradiksi. Maka dari itu, saya sarankan (dan saya sangat berharap) Anda membaca "On Contradiction" karya Mao Tse-Tung sebagai permulaan. Saya tidak akan membicarakan dialektika di sini, tetapi saya akan meluruskan sejumlah kesalahan yang Anda buat.
Secara sederhana, sosialisme adalah tahapan yang lebih maju dari masyarakat ketika masyarakat telah mampu menyelesaikan kontradiksi-kontradisi yang ada pada tahapan kapitalisme. Dalam masyarakat kapitalis, ada sejumlah kontradiksi yang mendasar dan berikut adalah salah satunya (saya mengutip Mao di sini):
"When Marx applied this law to the study of the economic structure of capitalist society, he discovered that the basic contradiction of this society is the contradiction between the social character of production and the private character of ownership."
Kita menemukan dalam masyarakat kapitalis, segala barang yang diproduksi itu diproduksi secara bersama-sama oleh buruh, atau dengan kata lain, karakter produksi dari masyarakat kapitalis bersifat sosial. Tetapi, karakter kepemilikannya privat, atau dengan kata lain, pabrik-pabrik di mana buruh-buruh itu bekerja dimiliki oleh sekelompok orang saja. Karena pabrik-pabrik itu tidak dimiliki buruh, buruh hanya mendapat sangat sedikit atas hal-hal yang buruh itu sendiri produksi. Selain itu, ini juga menjadi sumber dari eksploitasi atas para buruh itu, yang dijelaskan dengan lengkap oleh Marx dalam Das Kapital. Kontradiksi ini akan diselesaikan dalam revolusi sosialis dengan mengubah karakter kepemilikan sarana produksi menjadi sosial, atau dengan kata lain, para buruh mengambil alih kepemilikan pabrik-pabrik dari para kapitalis, membebaskan diri mereka dari eksploitasi. Ini adalah contoh menarik bagaimana Marx menerapkan dialektika tuan-budak (master-slave dialectic) dalam pemikiran G.W.F. Hegel untuk dikaitkan dengan kerja dan eksploitasi dalam kapitalisme.
Masih ada banyak hal yang belum saya ungkapkan, seperti bagimana kapitalisme secara internal tidak dapat mengatasi masalah pengangguran (baca "Marxism vs Liberalisme", Stalin's talk with H.G. Wells), tetapi saya akan serahkan itu kepada Anda untuk Anda pelajari sendiri. Saya ingin menanggapi mengenai apa yang Anda sebut "incentive." Saya enggan menggunakan kata tersebut dan lebih suka menggunakan instilah lain seperti "motivation" karena kata incentive erat kaitannya dengan bangunan ideologis borjuis tentang kapitalisme. Anda juga berbicara tentang "kemalasan" yang berkembang di dalam sosialisme yang disebabkan oleh kesetaraan distribusi (equal distribution) atas barang-barang.
Apa yang memotivasi orang-orang dapat beragam, tetapi adalah benar dalam kapitalisme bahwa uang adalah salah satu hal yang memotivasi orang. Orang-orang ingin memiliki banyak uang karena dengannya mereka dapat berbelanja berbagai hal, membentuk apa yang kita sebut konsumerisme. Tetapi, itu di dalam kapitalisme. Di dalam sosialisme, sebuah budaya baru akan dibangun. Nilai-nilai lama akan ditinggalkan dan nilai-nilai baru akan muncul. Masyarakat akan berjalan dengan cara yang berbeda dari sebelumnya. Jika di dalam kapitalisme, eksploitasi dibenarkan, di dalam sosialisme, eksploitasi tidak akan dibenarkan. Maka dari itu, hidup dari kerja orang lain tidak dapat dibernarkan dalam sosialisme. Anda tidak bekerja tetapi menikmati hasil kerja orang lain adalah ciri-ciri kapitalis. Di dalam sosialisme, tidak ada kapitalis, maka setiap orang harus berkontribusi dan menikmati secara bersama apa yang diproduksi secara bersama. Kemalasan seringkali muncul karena seseorang dapat menikmati sesuatu tanpa bekerja untuk mendapatkannya. Karena dalam sosialisme tiap orang dituntut untuk bekerja atau berkontribusi dalam masyarakat, kemalasan yang Anda bicarakan tidak akan sebegitu menyebar dibanding kemalasan yang ada dan dibentuk oleh kapitalisme, seperti menghabiskan waktu untuk bermain game dan menonton film. Juga, saya pikir jauh lebih penting untuk menyikapi masalah-masalah yang sering disebut sebagai "kemalasan" yang sebenarnya adalah ketidakberdayaan.
No, it's silly to assume that people would let society collapse under socialism. In your house, do you not clean your toilet because you don't have an incentive? Do you not clean because you don't have an incentive? Do you let your house fall appart around you because you don't have an incentive to fix it?
In a world where our choices do matter and where we can decide things collectively, once we get rid of the State and bosses and do direct democracy in the cities and in our workplaces, we will necesarily feel responsible for the well being of the whole. People will naturally do the minimum work required to reach the standard of living they want.
Just think about it: if the people are in control and get the entire fruit of their collective labor, if they feel too poor, they'll just work harder to be less poor. If they feel like they work too hard, they'll figure out ways to work less without making sacrifices. We just have to stop thinking that our decisions and actions don't matter and can't change a thing, like we've always been taught!
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It takes a bit of patience to figure out how the merging works, but I do enjoy that aspect a lot. It's a fun puzzle to look at the details and figure out how things connect, educational that way too.
I think this concept of game and what it's trying to educate on can really be expanded on.
hmmmmm, decent game. the concepts in of themselves are pretty decent,
but u know , attempting this irl, u hit roadblocks cuase, someone has to head the changes and often thats where u get stuck.
but does make one think..
good design too btw.
Tell me, why does switching cars for trains kill the environment
becuase its all connected
(and u can merge items to extropolate ideas and fix those too)
OK but trains do not kill the environment more than cars do - quite the opposite, in fact. "It's all connected maaaan" only gets you so far, you do need to consider HOW things are connected. Vicious cycles are not the only cycles.
I think that it's because just having the trains won't/wouldn't fix the issue of unhealthily extracting from the Earth, like putting a bandage on a cut. :3c
One freight train uses less fuel than 70 cargo trucks to carry the same load, even assuming a diesel train and not electric. It literally does improve the issue of unhealthily extracting from the earth.
i feel like this is a statment piece but i like that i can control a little city in a box
eh. if you pair up with jiggery panky it sounds kind of cool, just make sure to pair it up before the drums come in (in this song).
molto carino davvero e carina la traduzione
Cute. I got 4 big diamonds on each corner of the screen so I guess that means I won the game? After a bit I was just pecking at random places to see if something would happen. It isn't always clear when something is good or bad.
Some of the links are:
1- Communism
2- ???
3- Joy!
but I see what you want to say even if the delivery is a bit ham-handed at points. I guess the alternative would be long texts that people wouldn't read. So I guess you're doing as well as could be done in this medium.
This is borderline more of a learning tool than a proper game. The game mechanic is essentially clicking around for a reaction. Some more dynamic mechanics could make this more varied and engaging. Maybe split it into shorter games for each aspect? Like a game for each diamond?
I enjoyed playing this game, but I have seen the possibility of creating a resource-based economy, rather than just a post-capitalist society. Such an economy would use the scientific method to solve problems, without the constraints of left and right politics, money, poverty, and war. It would require completely different societal dynamics, and I think The Venus Project has some interesting ideas on this topic.
Update: I diverged from TVP and decided to make Humanist Socialism.
This is the scariest thing I've seen for a long time. Is cultural erasure with an utopic distribution and some form of non descript barter. Is utopic at best, distopic at worse.Is well intentioned, I won't deny, but without extreme societal changes, not feasible.
I have the same thoughts when playing, but I would like to ask .... what societal changes would we need :/
On the utopic side, communism. But I know that's not attainable now. So, social organization, like smaller things. Sindicalization, public gardens, study groups, and even i'm disenchanted, party politics. Joining a party, collectivizing, putting pressure on governments. I'm not sure in your country, but try and find a group, because alone we can't do nothing.
This is a really interesting game. I'm having difficulty getting through it, but I'll keep trying!
P.S. Good job on having the game with the most argumentative comment section.
The downvoting in this comment section is making me lose hope in humanity.
i know its shocking to see people that disagree with you
I didn't say i disagreed jackass
auugh, closest I've gotten so far! Been at it for hours, taking a break now! 🥱
WOO!! I did it in like- 5 minutes! I did have to scroll through the comments to find out how to get to this point though... 😔
why replace the advertisement with that ugly painting? also the diamonds in this game are lame and the blocky stairs seem way cooler to hang out with.
That was... interesting.
I come to video games to escape politics
love the -8 guys
Then don't click on the political video game about politics.
I rate this a 10/10 I learned what yes and no is in Portuguese
I accidentally pressed Portuguese and now I know what yes in Portuguese is. It's sim.
Very cool, educational game.
I very much enjoyed this game!
cheered me up
Interesting game, very thought-provoking.
I'm Slavic and my mother's side of Family lived in USSR, She had to throw away her chance at a proper life in order to be able to help pay for her sibling's education by getting a job after finishing high school, and had to stand hours in line just to get some food. Socialism/communism is an unrealistic ideal and my mother has told me many stories about how she and her side of the family suffered because of that system. Although some aspects of socialism I.E. free healthcare work with a capitalist society, but a completely socialist/communist system is impossible because of one and very simple human emotion called greed. The only way such a system would work is if we were emotionless, or if robots took over almost every job eliminating the need for the general population to work.
Well, I'm slavic too and we we were kinda screwed good by USSR and communism
the Chinese are communist's and it works for them
"Communist"
China is not like the postcapitalist society depicted in this game. Nor was the USSR. It is imagining a possible future, not an existing one :)
history has repeatedly told us that it is impossible for humans to create a free socialist republic that works
Also that it is impossible to create a free capitalist republic that works 😁
true, but at least one that will work better
their government participates in capitalism to make money for themselves but they dont let their people live in a free capitalist state as well
Children can never be raised in a family because of one and very simple human emotion called greed. Children could only exist if we were emotionless, so I guess our species will quietly die out now.
Seriously though, there is a lot to humans, don't underestimate us. And insisting that our entire system be based on one single and pretty negative aspect of our characters, even if you think that aspect is immutable, is kinda sociopathic.
The funny thing is that all of the problems your mother complained about are current problems in the (very capitalist) United States.
another funny thing is how those problems started when we introduced more socialist forms of economics
Well, that's the stupidest thing I've read all day, and I spent an hour on Twitter earlier. Good job.
Thanks! i can prove it too, something i don't think you can do if you spend time on twitter.
I'd say that you should try that again, but this is likely the best you've got. Thanks for trying.
Capitalism are also flawed in reality, both work great on paper, but the problems arise when people use the system for their own personal gain. The USSR was flawed in many ways but I still belive in a communistic society. This is because the current capitalistic society allows people to disregard people like my parents that were workers and being underpaid and exploited by the system. Capitalism does not work either
When you say capitalism, do you mean free market? Or private ownership of property? Those aren't the same thing. Socialism is the public control, ownership can be public or private. The US isn't a free market by a long shot, not even close. There are more national regulatory public control agencies than anyone can actually tabulate and each has mountains of regulations. Banks and Medicine, institutions people push as lacking in efficiency and have dedicated office space for regulators. In fact, medicine has increased cost as there are multiples more admin than actual providers (I work in the healthcare staffing space). Try opening a clinic or anything related to medicine and tell me there aren't massive regulations.
The western half is almost entirely owned by government, several of the western states are ~75% public (another word for socialized or common or communal) property. Public roads, public utilities, public lands, public parks. Social property. Social owned and controlled is communism. Social controlled but private ownership is fascism (both groups are socialist, they just kill each other because they disagree on the degree to impose their ideology.)
Capitalism doesn't work if done with socialism. That's why they have to grab more power and ownership and nationalize - just like banks we are watching in real time. Free markets work though. China was communist and the millions that died from famines and such would make people sob for the rest of their lives if they actually cared. When they opened up markets to be MORE free, they have more millionaires than the US has people. Their middle class is ballooning. Which makes the elites worried - anyone remember Hong Kong? You know the one they were only able to shut down by telling everyone there was a disease? Nordic countries pulled away from social programs in the same time frame. It is like someone escaping a torture chamber and another walking in pointing to them as it is good because they were there.
If your parents are underpaid, get another job. Better yet, start a company. You can't because the regulations are overburdening. They are exploited by the system but not a free market system. It is and has been forever mostly a socialized system. All the problems socialists whine about are due to regulation and control of the social, not from trade. Trade generates wealth without even needing to utilize any resources. It is better for the environment and society AND handles greed. You have to satisfy my greed to satisfy yours and I have to satisfy yours to satisfy mine. Professors that are socialists aren't going to tell you that, as they sit in their lazy comfy jobs paid by the state. It is the deadliest religion we have ever seen.
tl;dr pls
US isn’t a free market (which is what most people mean when they say capitalism - which isn’t really synonymous) but socialist with either fascism (private ownership/state controlled) moving into more communism (state owned/controlled).
Amazing stuff!
Fun and chill. Also, educating.
Excavating the links between different outgrowths of capitalism was very interesting and very well done. This was a great way to interact with the foundations of capitalism.
Say, I think this game could really really use some kind of detailed explanation sheet about the links between each issue. I find them tenuous at best, and it might be difficult to understand for people who aren't familiar with communist theory.
I....did this game just make me a communist? And make me like it!?
Amazing game either way i'm just having a bit of an existential crisis now xD
Great stuff--love the visible, interactive representation of the dialectic
This is as good as I got. Did anyone manage to create a complete utopia, or is it unattainable in the game?
A full utopia is possible! You just have to do the "right-click and drag" interaction on the little blocks coming off the side of the level. For example, you can connect the two nodes in the bottom left of the screen (time is managed in the name of efficiency + unpaid labour is fundamental for capitalism). I absolutely could have explained that mechanic better, haha.
Fab! I got there. Nice, thoughtful & thought-provoking game.
Reminds me a bit of my game CityBuilder. Love the look and feel of your game!
But i think the tutorial could be a bit more clear it feels a bit confusing somehow, maybe cut it in a few separate pieces or direct the player a bit more?
I'm actually in need of feedback on my game so if you have time that would be great! And if you want me to share idea's and feedback about your game i would love to share anything i can come up with that might improves yours if your interested.
https://guldor.itch.io/citybuilder
This is a nice comment section
everyone is just so loving to every opinion
Wonderful, a deep insight into benefitting all. Also a very clever and educational game. I found this piece as a highs school senior and now as I am due to graduate my first university degree, I still find myself returning here to relive this experience, to remind me of why I do what it is I do. Thank you.
its a nice simulation, unfortunately a perfected algorithm of a linear system that has absolutely zero realism is dangerous. Communism/socialism/Marxism and now the rebranded version, "democratic socialism" resulted in the deaths of arguably at least a billion years since Carl Marx and contemporaries wrote there utopian vision. Don't be fooled, this is a horrible destruction, Jealous and evil system that is far far worse than anything capitalism has and will do to an individual. Maybe one day we'll have a better system, but anyone thinking a system of Jealousy and forced theft will make the future better only needs to look at history for countless examples.
Communism killed a billion years? You mean Marx literally ate time? And thank God there is no trace of greed in any other political or social system.
communism
Communism is great. This is a game that says that capitalism will necesarily create a bad life for us all and that the only solution is to abandon capitalist principles and embrace communist ones.
bruh
I'm sure people from Venezuela love socialism just as much as the people in the comments.
Hi Troll
sanctions
Venezuela is not socialist
why all the dislike bombing in the comments
socialism seems great, until you realize that very few have the incentive to work hard since being lazy will get them just about all the same stuff as someone who works hard their whole life in a socialist society. the result? economic collapse due to everyone being lazy. so all you will accomplish with full socialism is making everyone live roughly the same, in poverty. like wise, if you go full capitalist, the rich and successful will just fill their wallets and again the common person will suffer. the solution? strike a balance. have capitalism but with socialist policys like universal healthcare and government paid collage for example. you dont want to go to far in either direction.
clearly the solution to capitalism being awful is to just make it more sustainable so it can be awful for longer! also today I learned humans never do anything productive unless it makes their life better than someone else's.
the problem with socialism is lack of incentive. you go socialist, people get lazy as why work hard if you get pretty much the same stuff as someone who works hard even if your lazy? the answer is you wont work hard. you will just sit back and let others do the work even if you dont realize it. that, or your children that are born into socialism will and so will their children and so on. except, everyone will be relying on everyone else to work hard and no one will be working hard so the economy would fall due to everyone being lazy. pretty soon, there wouldnt be much left. theres a famous quote that goes "capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others". capitalism may suck, but its better than everyone being really poor. theres another quote that explains what i was talking about earlier that goes: "socialism is great, until you run out of everyone else's money"
likewise, the problem with capitalism is that the rich just fill their wallets without regard for the average person.
the solution? a balance. in a perfect world, socialism or even communism would be great. but atlas, humans need incentive. maybe once we reach the "AI singularity" thats predicted to come in 40 years we can have socialism. until then, your stuck with a capitalism/socialism mix im afraid.
also, its not about making their life better than others necessarily. there just needs to be a reward for doing so or why bother? why bother researching and nerding out when you could have some quick fun on itch io instead of waiting 10 years for your nerdy hobbys to pay off? or doing your hobbys 24/7 and never do itch io? same reason socialism wont work: lazyness and/or a need for incentive/reward in a relatively short time period to do work. or at least to do more than the minimum
btw, sorry i took so long to respond. haven't been on in a while.
Socialism and communism are different things. Socialism isn't just "everyone has the same life and everything is owned by the state." And idk about you but I'm going into the field of genetics because I want to learn and I want to make a difference, not because I want to make money. If I cared more about money, I would be staying at my job and working my way upward, but instead I'm focusing on schooling, which is expensive and putting me in debt. Tell me again how the ability to go to school full time without having to work at an amusement park for minimum wage simply to survive would make me not want to pursue an education and career in my field?
Not everyone only cares about money. So if it weren't for capitalism, people like you could play on itch.io all day and people like me could actually achieve something without starving in the process. Just because your dreams revolve around money doesn't mean no one will ever do anything without money as a motivation.
you're right to an extent, they are not the same system. But they are rooted in the same philosophy. So called democratic socialism is dangerously close in its language to Marxist philosophy. When is it ok to take an individuals assets for the, "good of the people" or when is it ok to silence a persons beliefs due to it being considered, "dangerous or destructive" to a society. That is where Democratic socialism, and what would result from its implementation, are far to close to the systems of the past.
Halo. Saya menulis dalam bahasa Indonesia karena sulit bagi saya mengungkapkan pikiran yang kompleks dalam bahasa Inggris yang bukan bahasa ibu saya.
Ada kesalahan pikir baik ketika Anda mendeskripsikan kapitalisme dan sosialisme. Umumnya Marxis ketika membicarakan kapitalisme, mereka membicarakan tentang mode produksi kapitalis, yaitu tentang pembagian kelas antara borjuasi dan buruh, eksploitasi nilai lebih, dan lain-lain. Anda di sisi lain berbicara tentang konstruksi ideologis atas kapitalisme; Anda berbicara bagaimana kapitalisme dipandang secara ideologis, seperti kapitalisme menciptakan insentif, kapitalisme membuat orang tidak malas, dan lain-lain. Kesalahan pikir Anda tentang kapitalisme kemudian terbawa pula dalam Anda mendeskripsikan sosialisme. Anda membicarakan segala sesuatu yang berkebalikan dengan konstruksi ideologis Anda atas kapitalisme dan mulai menyebutnya sebagai "sosialisme."
Kesalahan pikir Anda selanjutnya adalah ketika Anda berpikir bahwa sosialisme adalah kebalikan dari "kapitalisme" -- kapitalisme dalam pandangan ideologis borjuis Anda. Ini menunjukkan ketidakpahaman akan teori materialisme historis Marx yang didasarkan pada dialektika. Dan dialektika erat kaitannya dengan kontradiksi. Maka dari itu, saya sarankan (dan saya sangat berharap) Anda membaca "On Contradiction" karya Mao Tse-Tung sebagai permulaan. Saya tidak akan membicarakan dialektika di sini, tetapi saya akan meluruskan sejumlah kesalahan yang Anda buat.
Secara sederhana, sosialisme adalah tahapan yang lebih maju dari masyarakat ketika masyarakat telah mampu menyelesaikan kontradiksi-kontradisi yang ada pada tahapan kapitalisme. Dalam masyarakat kapitalis, ada sejumlah kontradiksi yang mendasar dan berikut adalah salah satunya (saya mengutip Mao di sini):
"When Marx applied this law to the study of the economic structure of capitalist society, he discovered that the basic contradiction of this society is the contradiction between the social character of production and the private character of ownership."
Kita menemukan dalam masyarakat kapitalis, segala barang yang diproduksi itu diproduksi secara bersama-sama oleh buruh, atau dengan kata lain, karakter produksi dari masyarakat kapitalis bersifat sosial. Tetapi, karakter kepemilikannya privat, atau dengan kata lain, pabrik-pabrik di mana buruh-buruh itu bekerja dimiliki oleh sekelompok orang saja. Karena pabrik-pabrik itu tidak dimiliki buruh, buruh hanya mendapat sangat sedikit atas hal-hal yang buruh itu sendiri produksi. Selain itu, ini juga menjadi sumber dari eksploitasi atas para buruh itu, yang dijelaskan dengan lengkap oleh Marx dalam Das Kapital. Kontradiksi ini akan diselesaikan dalam revolusi sosialis dengan mengubah karakter kepemilikan sarana produksi menjadi sosial, atau dengan kata lain, para buruh mengambil alih kepemilikan pabrik-pabrik dari para kapitalis, membebaskan diri mereka dari eksploitasi. Ini adalah contoh menarik bagaimana Marx menerapkan dialektika tuan-budak (master-slave dialectic) dalam pemikiran G.W.F. Hegel untuk dikaitkan dengan kerja dan eksploitasi dalam kapitalisme.
Masih ada banyak hal yang belum saya ungkapkan, seperti bagimana kapitalisme secara internal tidak dapat mengatasi masalah pengangguran (baca "Marxism vs Liberalisme", Stalin's talk with H.G. Wells), tetapi saya akan serahkan itu kepada Anda untuk Anda pelajari sendiri. Saya ingin menanggapi mengenai apa yang Anda sebut "incentive." Saya enggan menggunakan kata tersebut dan lebih suka menggunakan instilah lain seperti "motivation" karena kata incentive erat kaitannya dengan bangunan ideologis borjuis tentang kapitalisme. Anda juga berbicara tentang "kemalasan" yang berkembang di dalam sosialisme yang disebabkan oleh kesetaraan distribusi (equal distribution) atas barang-barang.
Apa yang memotivasi orang-orang dapat beragam, tetapi adalah benar dalam kapitalisme bahwa uang adalah salah satu hal yang memotivasi orang. Orang-orang ingin memiliki banyak uang karena dengannya mereka dapat berbelanja berbagai hal, membentuk apa yang kita sebut konsumerisme. Tetapi, itu di dalam kapitalisme. Di dalam sosialisme, sebuah budaya baru akan dibangun. Nilai-nilai lama akan ditinggalkan dan nilai-nilai baru akan muncul. Masyarakat akan berjalan dengan cara yang berbeda dari sebelumnya. Jika di dalam kapitalisme, eksploitasi dibenarkan, di dalam sosialisme, eksploitasi tidak akan dibenarkan. Maka dari itu, hidup dari kerja orang lain tidak dapat dibernarkan dalam sosialisme. Anda tidak bekerja tetapi menikmati hasil kerja orang lain adalah ciri-ciri kapitalis. Di dalam sosialisme, tidak ada kapitalis, maka setiap orang harus berkontribusi dan menikmati secara bersama apa yang diproduksi secara bersama. Kemalasan seringkali muncul karena seseorang dapat menikmati sesuatu tanpa bekerja untuk mendapatkannya. Karena dalam sosialisme tiap orang dituntut untuk bekerja atau berkontribusi dalam masyarakat, kemalasan yang Anda bicarakan tidak akan sebegitu menyebar dibanding kemalasan yang ada dan dibentuk oleh kapitalisme, seperti menghabiskan waktu untuk bermain game dan menonton film. Juga, saya pikir jauh lebih penting untuk menyikapi masalah-masalah yang sering disebut sebagai "kemalasan" yang sebenarnya adalah ketidakberdayaan.
Sekian uraian pendapat saya. Terima kasih.
When you totally understand what socialism is
No, it's silly to assume that people would let society collapse under socialism. In your house, do you not clean your toilet because you don't have an incentive? Do you not clean because you don't have an incentive? Do you let your house fall appart around you because you don't have an incentive to fix it?
In a world where our choices do matter and where we can decide things collectively, once we get rid of the State and bosses and do direct democracy in the cities and in our workplaces, we will necesarily feel responsible for the well being of the whole. People will naturally do the minimum work required to reach the standard of living they want.
Just think about it: if the people are in control and get the entire fruit of their collective labor, if they feel too poor, they'll just work harder to be less poor. If they feel like they work too hard, they'll figure out ways to work less without making sacrifices. We just have to stop thinking that our decisions and actions don't matter and can't change a thing, like we've always been taught!
well, to be fair, socialism is that balance, what your talking about is communism, which is basically socialism gone bad
love this a lot. really great way to learn and understand the relationship between everything!
over time all your changes go away